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Post by Josh on Jun 15, 2007 23:11:41 GMT -5
Note: Taken from another board.
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Post by seaver41 on Jun 15, 2007 23:22:41 GMT -5
I personally think Maddux has had a better career, though he doesn't have the wins to show it. 338 wins isn't enough to show it? Clemens has so many b/c he's been with good teams most of his career, Maddux had a lot of double-digit losses with the Cubs and Braves. Maddux is better. He's had double-digit wins since 1988 and 3214 K's despite never being known as a power pitcher. His control is probably the best of all time. |
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Post by Star Man on Jun 16, 2007 10:21:35 GMT -5
Roger Clemens.
Greatest. Pitcher. Ever.
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Post by seaver41 on Jun 16, 2007 10:32:25 GMT -5
Roger Clemens. Greatest. Pitcher. Ever. Walter Johnson is greatest pitcher ever. He was on horrible teams most of his career and still managed to win over 20 games multiple times. Even in terms of a peak, Clemens never had a great one. Pedro had arguably the greatest peak any pitcher has ever had in his years with the Red Sox. Sandy Koufax had a monster one as well (which lasted most of his short career). He pitched a 2-hitter on 2-days rest in the World Series. So, Clemens doesn't have the career numbers Johnson has nor the peak numbers Pedro or Koufax had. He's been one of the best pitchers of all time. probably top 10, top 5 at best. But he's far from ever being the greatest pitcher of all time. |
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Post by #1 Jays Fan on Jun 16, 2007 21:02:19 GMT -5
i say Clemens
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Post by Fish Troll on Jun 17, 2007 15:09:55 GMT -5
All hail the great Rocket. I'm pretty sure he won more Cy Young then Maddux.
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Post by seaver41 on Jun 17, 2007 17:03:09 GMT -5
Awards mean as much as horse crap. Nolan Ryan never won a single Cy Young Award.
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Post by hp93 on Jun 18, 2007 19:49:24 GMT -5
Roger Clemens....He's the best pitcher that I've ever seen pitch.
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Post by seaver41 on Jun 18, 2007 21:01:23 GMT -5
You must not have seen many pitchers.
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Post by cardsfan643 on Jun 19, 2007 11:52:56 GMT -5
Greg Maddux. The key is consistency. Plus he's a gamer. Not some little biotch who needs to be in the spotlight. I love Smoltz, Maddux, and Glavine.
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Post by Fish Troll on Jun 22, 2007 13:24:18 GMT -5
Let not forget Maddux pitch for the NL for his career while Clemans pitch for the AL for most of his career and yet their career ERA are still very similar: Maddux: 3.08; Clemens: 3.11
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Post by seaver41 on Jun 22, 2007 14:39:57 GMT -5
Maddux's best years were better than Clemens' best. Yes, Maddux didn't have to pitch to 9 hitters but I don't think a 1.56 or 1.60 ERA would have translated to something like a 3.50 ERA in the AL. Greg Maddux only has 953 BB, Clemens has 1553 BB. Maddux also has over 3215 K's and was never considered a strikeout pitcher.
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Post by Star Man on Jun 22, 2007 15:30:36 GMT -5
Maddux's best years were better than Clemens' best. Yes, Maddux didn't have to pitch to 9 hitters but I don't think a 1.56 or 1.60 ERA would have translated to something like a 3.50 ERA in the AL. Greg Maddux only has 953 BB, Clemens has 1553 BB. Maddux also has over 3215 K's and was never considered a strikeout pitcher. Pithers that come from the NL to the AL sometimes experience a jump in ERA of an average of about half a run(see Benson, Kris 2006). |
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Post by Fish Troll on Jun 22, 2007 19:12:13 GMT -5
Maddux's best years were better than Clemens' best. Yes, Maddux didn't have to pitch to 9 hitters but I don't think a 1.56 or 1.60 ERA would have translated to something like a 3.50 ERA in the AL. Greg Maddux only has 953 BB, Clemens has 1553 BB. Maddux also has over 3215 K's and was never considered a strikeout pitcher. Pithers that come from the NL to the AL sometimes experience a jump in ERA of an average of about half a run(see Benson, Kris 2006). Though explaining the dominance Clemens had during his 3 years vacation in the NL. 2001 New York Yankees 3.51 ERA
2002 New York Yankees 4.35 ERA
2003 New York Yankees 3.91 ERA2004 Houston Astros 2.98 ERA
2005 Houston Astros 1.87 ERA
2006 Houston Astros 2.30 ERA2007 New York Yankees 4.86 ERAOut of the 20 seasons Clemens pitch for the AL, 9 of them were under 3.00 ERA mark. Out of the 22 seasons Maddux pitch for the NL (his whole career), 9 of them wew under the 3.00 ERA mark. Clemens other 3 season in the NL, he was perfect 3/3 of keeping his ERA under 3.00 mark.  He only has .03 points more then Maddux for the career ERA. 3.08 vs 3.11 |
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Post by seaver41 on Jun 22, 2007 19:40:26 GMT -5
Clemens' 2006 season doesn't count since it was only 20 starts.
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